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Work with two-year associate's (AA) degree and tefl or tesol?

Moderator: Tempo Gain

Re: Work with two-year associate's (AA) degree and tefl or tesol?

Postby 林镇浦 » 13 Apr 2016, 15:10

Is teaching the only job you can legally do with a two year college diploma + TEFL or can you work in other industries once you have your ARC?
林镇浦
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Re: Work with two-year associate's (AA) degree and tefl or tesol?

Postby yyy » 14 Apr 2016, 12:41

林镇浦 wrote:Is teaching the only job you can legally do with a two year college diploma + TEFL or can you work in other industries once you have your ARC?

Basically, having an ARC doesn't give you the right to work (whereas having an APRC or a JFRV lets you do almost anything), and for most industries that foreigners (without APRC/JFRV) are allowed to participate in, if you don't have a relevant degree you're supposed to have five years of relevant experience.

The "Hard to find work in Taiwan" thread in the other forum explains this in more detail.
Edit: which I just noticed you already saw. But the "five years" standard applies to most of the jobs available to foreigners iirc, not just the kind you were asking about. If you're serious about living in Taiwan, it's worth going to the MOJ website and reading the whole set of regulations.

As discussed in some other threads, the government was planning to make it slightly less difficult for foreigners to work here but faced a backlash due to fears about loopholes that could result in fewer jobs and lower wages for Taiwanese, and the forecast is that the incoming government will focus on other issues, leaving the current system more or less intact. :(
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Re: Work with two-year associate's (AA) degree and tefl or tesol?

Postby 林镇浦 » 14 Apr 2016, 16:08

yyy wrote:
林镇浦 wrote:Is teaching the only job you can legally do with a two year college diploma + TEFL or can you work in other industries once you have your ARC?

Basically, having an ARC doesn't give you the right to work (whereas having an APRC or a JFRV lets you do almost anything), and for most industries that foreigners (without APRC/JFRV) are allowed to participate in, if you don't have a relevant degree you're supposed to have five years of relevant experience.

The "Hard to find work in Taiwan" thread in the other forum explains this in more detail.
Edit: which I just noticed you already saw. But the "five years" standard applies to most of the jobs available to foreigners iirc, not just the kind you were asking about. If you're serious about living in Taiwan, it's worth going to the MOJ website and reading the whole set of regulations.

As discussed in some other threads, the government was planning to make it slightly less difficult for foreigners to work here but faced a backlash due to fears about loopholes that could result in fewer jobs and lower wages for Taiwanese, and the forecast is that the incoming government will focus on other issues, leaving the current system more or less intact. :(

I've read about that. You don't need work/academic qualifications to get the ARC since it doesn't contain any working rights. However when applying for a work permit through the company who is offering you employment, you must have a bachelor's degree or a 2 year's associate degree + TEFL certificate. My interest lies in whether the second option only applies to english teaching roles.

TBH no I'm not really serious about living in Taiwan long term but I'm looking into the avenue of getting a 2 year college diploma in radiography in China and then two years of directly relevant clinical experience in radiography somewhere, preferably in a Chinese setting (hence my looking into Taiwan), then I can return to Australia and upgrade my qualification to a full Bachelor's. I'm addressing why in a thread I'm drafting for the working in Taiwan forum. It would be a great thing if I could achieve this since it would set a precedent for others at the very beginning of their careers looking at options other than teaching English. And let's face it, Taiwan needs a workforce shakeup of some kind if they want to avoid seeing their economy go down the shitter.

But now you've raised the issue of foreigners generally needing 5 years of work experience. That sucks pretty bad. Is there an actual regulation for that I could find on the MOJ website or is it a general rule that employers asked for?
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Re: Work with two-year associate's (AA) degree and tefl or tesol?

Postby 林镇浦 » 14 Apr 2016, 16:11

I just saw that you said the 5 year experience requirement is if you don't have a relevant degree. Well that's fair enough.
I wonder if I could somehow secure a 2 year internship in a clinic doing radiography. If so I should be able to do that in both of China and Taiwan (with official permission from the respective government) or any other place where Mandarin Chinese is the/an official language.
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Re: Work with two-year associate's (AA) degree and tefl or tesol?

Postby yyy » 15 Apr 2016, 12:10

林镇浦 wrote:I just saw that you said the 5 year experience requirement is if you don't have a relevant degree. Well that's fair enough.
I wonder if I could somehow secure a 2 year internship in a clinic doing radiography. If so I should be able to do that in both of China and Taiwan (with official permission from the respective government) or any other place where Mandarin Chinese is the/an official language.

The specific regulations that supplement the Employment Service Act:

Regulations on the Permission and Administration of the Employment of Foreign Workers
Qualifications and Criteria Standards for foreigners undertaking the jobs specified under Article 46.1.1 to 46.1.6 of the Employment Service Act ["white collar"]
The Reviewing Standards and Employment Qualifications for Foreigners Engaging in the Jobs Specified in Iterns 8 to 11,Paragraph 1 to Article 46 of the Employment Service Act ["blue collar"]

The collar colors may have some overlap in practice. When you click on the 中 button to get the Chinese version, you may also see some attachments (before you click on the button to show the content of all Articles) that weren't there in the English version. Also, some laws/regulations (though obviously not the ones listed above) are only available in Chinese, and sometimes the translation sucks.

If you want to work in a Chinese language environment, you can always try Singapore. I don't know how "official" Chinese is supposed to be in Malaysia these days. In both cases, people would probably want to speak to you in English anyway. :doh: :2cents:

One more thing: as an Aussie if you're in the right age group you can get a working holiday visa for Taiwan and I think also for HK (not sure about Spore etc.). In Taiwan you would be limited to 6 months per employer (that's reciprocal because Aus does it to everyone else), but you wouldn't need a work permit. Any job that requires a license on top of the work permit (e.g. teaching in a public school) would still require the license.

There was a thread explaining some of the misunderstandings about WHV a few months ago.
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Re: Work with two-year associate's (AA) degree and tefl or tesol?

Postby Charlie Jack » 15 Apr 2016, 15:49

林镇浦 wrote:Is teaching the only job you can legally do with a two year college diploma + TEFL . . . ?

As far as I know, yes. As far as I know, the two-year-degree-plus-TEFL route of getting a work permit limits the holder of that work permit to teaching English in a cram school.

林镇浦 wrote:. . . or can you work in other industries once you have your ARC?

As far as I know, no. As far as I know, if one's ARC is based solely on a work permit that is specifically for teaching English in a cram school, then one is legally limited to teaching English in a cram school.

But I don't know all there is to know about the laws and regulations here, and I don't know all there is to know about how things work here.

Additionally, I think it should be mentioned that there are people here who started off teaching English in cram schools but are now doing other kinds of work.
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Re: Work with two-year associate's (AA) degree and tefl or tesol?

Postby yyy » 16 Apr 2016, 15:55

Charlie Jack wrote:
林镇浦 wrote:Is teaching the only job you can legally do with a two year college diploma + TEFL . . . ?

As far as I know, yes. As far as I know, the two-year-degree-plus-TEFL route of getting a work permit limits the holder of that work permit to teaching English in a cram school.

林镇浦 wrote:. . . or can you work in other industries once you have your ARC?

As far as I know, no. As far as I know, if one's ARC is based solely on a work permit that is specifically for teaching English in a cram school, then one is legally limited to teaching English in a cram school.

To avoid confusion, we should say it limits you to teaching in that one particular buxiban (cram school) and for clients at outside locations other than other buxibans or other educational institutions. Unfortunately, there's no industry-wide work permit (though it would make sense to create one since passing the WDA's requirements for a buxiban work permit once means you'll pass them again every subsequent time, provided that you don't become ill or have your credentials revoked).

For working in multiple buxibans simultaneously with multiple work permits, the limit is four iirc.
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Re: Work with two-year associate's (AA) degree and tefl or tesol?

Postby Charlie Jack » 16 Apr 2016, 21:29

yyy wrote:
Charlie Jack wrote:
林镇浦 wrote:Is teaching the only job you can legally do with a two year college diploma + TEFL . . . ?

As far as I know, yes. As far as I know, the two-year-degree-plus-TEFL route of getting a work permit limits the holder of that work permit to teaching English in a cram school.

林镇浦 wrote:. . . or can you work in other industries once you have your ARC?

As far as I know, no. As far as I know, if one's ARC is based solely on a work permit that is specifically for teaching English in a cram school, then one is legally limited to teaching English in a cram school.

To avoid confusion, we should say it limits you to teaching in that one particular buxiban (cram school) and for clients at outside locations other than other buxibans or other educational institutions. Unfortunately, there's no industry-wide work permit (though it would make sense to create one since passing the WDA's requirements for a buxiban work permit once means you'll pass them again every subsequent time, provided that you don't become ill or have your credentials revoked).

For working in multiple buxibans simultaneously with multiple work permits, the limit is four iirc.


I should have mentioned that. I apologize for the omission, and thanks for adding that information.
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