President Chen Shuibian shot! - Part 2

[maoman]

Please continue.

[Larsen Ni]

The Chinese KMT/PFP is trying desperately to deflect any suspicion away from them.

Mayor Ma just said that the joint KMT/PFP election headquarters is offering a NT$10 million reward for information on the culprit.

http://udn.com/NEWS/NATIONAL/NATS8/1909331.shtml

[Interlocutor]

It is now over 12 hours since the assassination attempt and major details are coming out maddeningly slowly. Is this typical paternal Chinese style or is something serious being withheld?

Scooter wrote:

Uh... pardon me, but isn't it possible that they didn't get shot? Chen was rushed to a hospital known to be run by a huge DPP supporter; the staff were told in advance that they were going to have to work over time; and if you really had such a large wound (some news reports said 11cm long, 3cm deep) then how could you walk into the hospital, and talk on national television (sitting up and looking fine)?

Now that is first rate conspiracy theory.

The bullet apparently did not puncture the abdomen so after 14 stitches it is perfectly feasible to address the nation in order to restore calm.

I want to know why the body guards didn't push Chen and Lu down into the Jeep when they saw they'd been shot? If you see blood, and a bullet hole in the windshield, then why don't you jump on top of them? Isn't that what they are supposed to do? Why didn't the car speed up? Why didn't the motorcycles put their sirens on? Why did Chen keep waving?

According to reports it was impossible to hear any shots fired due to the exposion of firecrackers. If you saw the video you see that Chen and Lu remain absolutely calm, thus not raising the alarm of the secret service. Lu is casually mentioning it to her bodyguard and Chen maintains appeal to the people without acknowledging it.

Why did it happen on the last day? After the stock market had closed?

It didn’t. the stock market was still open and suffered a brief drop.

[SCL]

My final thoughts after a long day...

What a nauseating spectacle watching Sisy Chen call a press conference [in other words, PROACTIVELY SPREAD] the conspiracy theories: "Someone" says Secret Service agents scouted out the hospital in advance; "Someone" claims A-Bian's medical records have been tampered with, "Someone" says the bullet casings don't match the bullet, blah blah blah.

I'm glad not ONE Green camp politician has openly alleged that it was a KMT plot -- if they're thinking it at least they have the decency to do so in private. In contrast various KMTers are shamelessly vying for media time to promote the idea that the DPP staged the entire event to gain votes. Even Lien had the nerve to not so subtly hint of a coverup by demanding that the government "reveal the whole truth by [Friday] evening." Um... there's something called an "ongoing investigation" that may take more than 6 hours. Too bad he wasn't around when Mrs. A-Bian was run over by a truck to clamor for immediate full disclosure. And if Lien was around in 1963 we could've all found out who shot JFK in 6 hours too.

I personally could not stay in a country where I seriously believed the government would do as deranged and despicable a thing as staging a fake assassination of its own leaders. Hell, might as well move to Zimbabwe in that case. All this just goes to show how shallow democracy really is on this island.

Frankly, even more incomprehensible are the posters here that are swept up in these far-fetched theories. At least the locals have the excuse that they're caught up in the emotions of the campaign and that they're newbies to democracy. What's an expat's excuse: just plain idiocy?

[cw.jc]

I don't know what the hell is going on??? I don't understand chinese so all I can do is go off what my wife's family states..

they state that he was not shot, that it was a firecracker, and if from what I saw on TV it didnt appear he was shot.. especially in the leg, he would have dropped immediately.. This guy is no tough guy, and if was he would still drop..

Also, they state he went over 5KM to a hospital when there was one were two private ones much closer, and they state one of his security guards is saying the hospital has been changing the records..

Also, they told me that right before the last elections, his wife got in a wreck so basically they all say this is conspiracy to get sympathy votes... Im not sure if it is true, but based on what I have seen from the government since I have been here I would not put it past them... Also, I have seen someone get shot in the leg by a 22 caliber rifle (accident) and trust me he dropped right a way... Not sure if you know anything about firearms, but if someone was attempting an assasination, they would be using a firearm with a much greater caliber, with bullets that shatter or mushroom on contact so there is noway this guy would still be standing, no possible way. and trust me if someone was close enough for the casings to be in the jeep... come on BS... no one, not even a child could screw that up

I personally believe there was no gun, probably hit by a firecracker....

Guess we will see tomorrow

[MaPoSquid]

The lone nut theory also doesn't float ... it's not as easy for some crazy guy to get a gun here as it would be to, say, in the United States.

Depends on what was used. You can make a handgun for the .45ACP cartridge(*) with a piece of water pipe, a pipe cap, a rubber band, and a nail.

(*) and other sizes too, of course, but the dimensions work out pretty easily for .45ACP and .22LR. Also 12ga shotshells.
The site appears to be down at the moment, but (if it ever comes back up) you can get plans for a lot of designs here:
Plans page for homemade guns

Taiwan is full of machine shops. Manufacturing a firearm is NOT rocket science. It's barely even plumbing. If you want a weapon that will fire one shot without blowing up, doesn't need to be quickly reloadable, and doesn't need to be lightweight or made out of weird materials, you can make it in an afternoon. A real, rifled barrel is hard. Using a bottlenecked cartridge means you need a special reamer (might take a day or two to make). But any of the parts could be smuggled in without much difficulty, judging from the lack of customs-inspection scrutiny I saw at CKS.

Get a few rounds of ammunition from a military range or maybe the night market (like that politician's kid did last summer), and you're all set.

[Flipper]

uh...did you read the other posts from last night? chen wasn't shot in the leg. if you're watching the videos, and saw the blood stain on his stomach, and then were STILL looking for a shot to the leg, I don't know what to say...

[MaPoSquid]

I don't know what the hell is going on???

Shoulda stopped there.

I have seen someone get shot in the leg by a 22 caliber rifle (accident) and trust me he dropped right a way...

On June 9, 1990, Officer Stacey Lim of the LAPD was shot in the heart with a .357 Magnum during an attempted carjacking. She drew her own gun, shot her attacker to death, a neighbor called an ambulance, Lim got taken to the hospital, underwent open-heart surgery to repair her torn-open ventricle, and she survived. LAPD has training videos about her; I'm not sure if they're generally available, although I saw one of them in a class a few years ago.

Meanwhile, some unfortunate sap of a cop got nicked in the arm with a .22LR back in the mid-1980's, and he went into a screaming fit and died.

So, I would say that "it depends". . . .

Not sure if you know anything about firearms, but if someone was attempting an assasination, they would be using a firearm with a much greater caliber, with bullets that shatter or mushroom on contact so there is noway this guy would still be standing, no possible way.

It was VP Lu who got hit in the knee. I suggest you read through the thread to learn what is already known, instead of relying on what is apparently a bunch of unreliable KMT ass-covering from your wife's family.

[daltongang]

I don't know what the hell is going on??? I don't understand Chinese so all I can do is go off what my wife's family states..

case closed.

[MaPoSquid]

Moronity?????? Never heard of that one before, and yes it might be a word who knows, but come on.. If you are going to try to insult me come up with something better than that..

If you can read, you will see that I simply stated I am not sure what is going on, that I cannot understand the news, that I am only stating what I was told by my wife's family... I even said not sure if it was true....

BUT I did say, You MORON, what I personally thought from the video I have had to watch over and over again tonight... From my exerience (I was raised with guns, have hunted my whole life) that a shot to a leg from a small caliber gun will drop a person to the ground, no question about it.. And only a complete MORON could try to assasinate some one from that close of range and miss the target (and yes it was a miss if it was an assasination attempt) or use a bb gun...

So there go ahead and derive the moronity of that statement since you must insult someone you moron.. (I believe that is the proper use)

You're just digging a deeper hole. You obviously haven't even bothered to check the web for accurate reporting from CNN, Reuters, and other sources, yet you are ranting away with all of the conspiracy crap that you've been overhearing.

On top of that, while you may have been raised around guns, you obviously don't know shit about gun-related injuries. Just because some friend of yours panicked and dropped after being hit in the leg(*), it doesn't mean that everyone does that. Take a look at some of the Medal of Honor citations -- Rodger Young's, for but one example -- to see what people can do even after multiple severe injuries.
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/moh1.htm

Neither Chen's nor Lu's wounds were especially severe. They were definitely hit by a bullet (or two separate ones; at least one post says there were multiple shots, but I haven't seen that in the news yet), but that doesn't mean instant incapacitation and death like you seem to think.

(*) not to belittle your friend -- perhaps his injury was serious, like a fractured pelvis. Then again, maybe he just got nicked, saw his blood, and panicked. I had to be transported after cutting my finger one time.