Yah lost me. How so?

You're a necrophile too!

Actually, that figures, I don't suppose a corpse puts up much resistance?

HG

Now this is a point I don't understand. Many countries (yes, even democratic ones) change their leaders before the term is up.

Let's See
Japan
UK
USA
... I'm sure I can think of others but I'm going to work now...

So, why do you assume that just become someone is elected, that we all have to suffer the fool until the change of leader.

Protest is a legitimate form of democratic government, (*not Violent*).

Kenneth

Because.

Well, in the UK and other parlimentary systems when governments get toppled a new general election is held. Here the president would only be replaced by the vice-president. The legislative would remain the same.

There is also the point that the legal means of ousting the president have been tried...and failed, and so there is the attempt now to use "people power" to do what the system couldn't.

Ah.

What are you on about? California voters recalled their governor through a legal process-one that is in the state constitution. That is hardly comparable to current efforts to remove Chen.

The ROC constitution provides a means for removing the President: impeachment. People who'd like to see the back of Chen should either follow legal processes for getting him out of office early or just wait until 2008, all the while preparing to beat the next green ticket.

In the case of the US, the way to remove a President is through impeachment. The same basically holds true in Taiwan. In Japan and the UK, a PM can step down to save his party's chances in the polls. In a parliamentary system, I can't imagine any PM staying at the top long enough for impeachment style processes to get underway; it would kill his/her party. Choosing to step down is a political choice. Nixon left office after hard evidence was stacked against him and legal proceedings aimed at removing him were in motion. CSB's situation is not the same. Though at some point it may be politically wise for him to go, I think it unlikely (based on what we know now) that he will be removed through constitutional processes (impeachment) before his term ends.

I haven't noticed much defending of any political party in this thread. I haven't noticed it in any other threads of late, either. What I have noticed is a good number of people posting in defense of the rule of law. If you can't comprehend the difference between the two, then perhaps you should take your insolent self back to a civics or history classroom to learn a thing or two from those who perform a job you so strongly disdain.

Or in other parlance, a stiff?

Hard and reliable as a rock, big boy, and no need for chemical enhancement. There's plenty of lurving over my way.

HG

Ding. Absolute ding.

I think the discussion about the legality of the protest movement is an important point, but I just have one question in response... wasn't CSB's administration supposed to be reforming the legal system and constitution in order to increase public oversight while strengthening democratic institutions? Remember the referendum law of 2004? Is there anything undemocratic about a recall law? Wouldn't it increase public oversight?

And I'll also point out that the anti-Bian movement has remained within the limits of the law at all times. They've assembled peacefully and legally to call upon CSB to resign. There's nothing inherently illegal in that move.

If the blue-red alliance truly believes that the overwhelming majority of Taiwanese wish for Chen's removal from office at any cost, then they have a simple and guaranteed way to achieve this without destroying social order and flouting the constitution.

Step 1: Their legislators pass a vote of no confidence against Su and his cabinet. They can muster a sufficient majority to do this whenever they care to. This will result in the toppling of the administration, the dismissal of the legislature by the president, and the calling of legislative elections.

Step 2: They focus their election campaign on asking for a sufficient majority to recall the president. If the electorate really are so desperate to be rid of Chen, red-blues should easily be able to win the requisite two-thirds majority.

Step 3: They use their newly increased majority in the LY to initiate a referendum for Chen's recall. If public antipathy toward Chen is anywhere near what the opposition claims, the recall referendum will be certain to succeed.

So why aren't they doing this? Why aren't they taking this democratic, constitutional route? What are they afraid of?