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A Charter of the People of Taiwan

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Re: A Charter of the People of Taiwan

Postby Ermintrude » 01 Jul 2014, 12:08

Good luck with your project!
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Re: A Charter of the People of Taiwan

Postby sofun » 01 Jul 2014, 12:15

Ermintrude wrote:You misunderstand. Taiwanese-born Americans are legally Americans. American-born Taiwanese are not Taiwanese, according to ythis document. The ethnocentrism is not unattractive to many expats. No, it's not an 'English' forum.


Ermintrude,

Taiwanese born Americans are encouraged to sign this Charter. Whether they have US or Malaysian citizenship is really beyond the scope of this Charter. This charter should not depend on any government's law or regulations. Quoting myself again "Whereas we unanimously recognize oursevles as the descendants, inheritors and individual constituents of this people"

Ermintrude wrote: As it stands, the 'legalese' is full of errors.

Yes. It has to be. Otherwise why should it in its current form be posted on Forumosa for hacking and editing?

Ermintrude wrote:You misunderstand. Taiwanese-born Americans are legally Americans. American-born Taiwanese are not Taiwanese, according to ythis document. The ethnocentrism is not unattractive to many expats. No, it's not an 'English' forum.

Ermintrude wrote:... if you were less opaque regarding your intentions.


The following is what I wrote in the opening post.
sofun wrote:I'm looking for volunteers to help me with drafting or editing a Charter of the People of Taiwan in English. Yes, I'm taking advantage of free resources on the interment. By helping me out you get paid nothing, and you're not violating anything, and you're not joining any organization whatsoever. You can be anonymous, anybody or everybody. (But of course, google keeps a record of everything written.) You don't get credit for it because I don't either. Nobody does. Here is what I have for now, and I'm sure so far it's littered with bad choice of word
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Re: A Charter of the People of Taiwan

Postby sofun » 01 Jul 2014, 12:22

Ermintrude wrote:Good luck with your project!

Thank you for your helpful feedback.
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Re: A Charter of the People of Taiwan

Postby sofun » 01 Jul 2014, 12:41

Newly added

ARTICLE 5. The People of Taiwan by democractic principles form as the sole and highest authority a Government of Taiwan, which owes its sole allegiance and sole accountability to the People and the country of Taiwan, and which defends itself and Taiwan against any incoporation, annexation, union and subjugation by another government, state, regime, authority, power, or administration that is not of Taiwan’s origin, pursuant to Article 6 of the present Charter.
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Re: A Charter of the People of Taiwan

Postby Hokwongwei » 01 Jul 2014, 15:00

Here's the thing -- this charter isn't democratic.

You have effectively limited the choices of the Taiwanese people over their own future irrespective of popular support. (Assuming the charter had any legal effect) what would happen if 99% of the population actually wanted unification with China? This charter prevents it.

And that's fine. It doesn't have to be a democracy. But if you are making choices about Taiwan's future on behalf of everyone else, and telling them that certain options are off the table no matter what, you should not use the term "democratic principles."
This is a highly proper signature.
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Re: A Charter of the People of Taiwan

Postby sofun » 02 Jul 2014, 02:19

Hokwongwei wrote:Here's the thing -- this charter isn't democratic.

You have effectively limited the choices of the Taiwanese people over their own future irrespective of popular support. (Assuming the charter had any legal effect) what would happen if 99% of the population actually wanted unification with China? This charter prevents it.

And that's fine. It doesn't have to be a democracy. But if you are making choices about Taiwan's future on behalf of everyone else, and telling them that certain options are off the table no matter what, you should not use the term "democratic principles."


Hokwongwei, thank you for taking the time to read this Charter, in its current messy and incomplete form.

This charter should be an instrument designed to be capable of securing the rule of law and democracy (both foundation of a free society ) in Taiwan forever. To this end, it should be equipted with a fail-safe mechanism. For example, it will prevent self-invalidation of itself by malicious intent. But, it will not prevent additional enhancement to itself by benign intent.

After making itself safe, and safe to apply, it is then able to protect Taiwan against any future chance of reverting back to a non-free society.

Hokwongwei wrote: ...you should not use the term "democratic principles."


Coming into force by democratic principles is one of many components that make this instrument realizes the design intent.
This is the START button. If we left out this term in the preamble, we should add the START button back, somewhere near the very end of the charter. It will still be a requirement, but maybe instead of a button, it is a switch, or a flip, or something else.
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Re: A Charter of the People of Taiwan

Postby sofun » 02 Jul 2014, 02:29

Newly Added Article

ARTICLE 6. [T.B.D.]

ARTICLE 7. There shall be One Parliament for Taiwan to make laws for the Peace and Good Government of Taiwan; it is hereby declared the exclusive Legislative Authority of the Parliament of Taiwan.
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Re: A Charter of the People of Taiwan

Postby sofun » 16 Sep 2014, 07:37

9:51 Q&A

Q: Does Catalonia have a right to separate from Spain?
A: "..We even have our own Charter which says that we're a nation..."
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Re: A Charter of the People of Taiwan

Postby sofun » 24 Sep 2014, 10:17

An event on the topic of a new constitutional democracy for Formosa.

https://www.facebook.com/events/319180728255014/

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Re: A Charter of the People of Taiwan

Postby jesus80 » 24 Sep 2014, 13:27

I read "for Forumosa" :D
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