triceratopses wrote:MikeN wrote:Because that's one of the standard excuses when these people fail to achieve their claims- even Jesus used it- or, more usually, for declining to submit their claims to scrutiny.
Excuses? Maybe they're telling the truth.
Or...maybe they're not- you know, like when the TM people were losing their following, so they suddenly claimed they could fly. You believe them, of course?
The only thing you can do is receive their reasoning and try to establish whether the reasoning is logically coherent or not. Whether it is simple or complex. Whether it has a long history or not, whether has been maintained or not generation to generation.
Um, no- if some people claim can live for a year without breathing, they are making an empirical claim, which is not something you establish by logic- you do it by testing. Doesn't matter how many generations have been claiming this ability, or how complex their reasoning is. Remember cold fusion? Uri Geller?
If they don't want to submit themselves to testing, then that only means your total method of verification is limited.
No, it doesn't- whether or not they want to submit themselves to it has nothing to do with whether the method is valid or not; it only speaks to their inclinations- whatever their motive for declining.
What usually screws secularists is severe bias where they mistakenly deny parts of other's reasoning out of prejudice.
I'm not saying anything whatsoever about their reasoning- I'm simply asking to see evidence of a physical verifiable claim they're making. If they tell me they have achieved a state of unity with cosmic consciousness, I'll say "good for you".
Bias NEVER serves you and the extreme arrogance of modern establishments have really forgotten that. That might be one of your answers.
Question: do you believe everything that anyone of any religious/spiritual/magical belief tradition says? If not, aren't you doing exactly the same thing, proclaiming the superiority of one tradition?
Another is that the west thinks they're so good. How many classics has the western lineage written in history? Like 5000, I can't remember exactly. India and everywhere near the north of it have written like 100,000s. 100,000s on the magnitude of Shakespeare. 50000 Socrateses and Shakespeareses running around.
And, even if true- and it's obviously subjective and/or culturally biased- what does this have to do with whether a person can live for a year without breathing?
You're not that cool. You killed Socrates
I wasn't even in Athens that weekend- I was visiting my buddy Daedalus down in Crete.
then went on a raping killing rampage across the world.
No, man, that was my cuz Alex, from up in Macedonia
I recall a large gathering between bunch of prominent scientists Neil Tyson was there Dawkins Krauss etc and Harris got up and started talking about how rebirth might actually be possible if it turns out mind (qualia) is primary, just as form cannot be destroyed, compounded states of mind ie. human minds subside into subtler states before becoming compounded again due to causes and conditions (one of which was the previous human life). Neil made lots of fun of him, and the others you can see looked a little embarrassed though they listened to the reasoning and evidence
No, I can't see- don't have my Third Eye open at the moment (you ever read Lobsang Rampa?- now there was cosmic wisdom, bro.)