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why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

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Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby hansioux » 01 Aug 2012, 01:18

kevinsang01212 wrote:
hansioux wrote:
kevinsang01212 wrote:And please, those pics shows more about abusive individuals and trainers who doesn't know better than human rights.

Where will you find propaganda against US??? China
Where will you find propaganda against China??? West
They are just two gansters


nope, China's sports program is a state run machine. If you have read about China officials' response to the outcry after these photos surfaces, you'd see the state sponsors this kind of treatment of athlete kids or otherwise, because the government thinks they paid, so they should get results.


You could say the same about the stupid response from the politicians in the West about their stupid laws.
They say stuff like that because they can. same with the politicians in the West.
The China officials does what they do in the open. It is more like:
"I am not afraid to be the bad guy here. U hypocrites in the West, go F yourself !!!!". LOL
The politicians in the West. They do it with deceit. :notworthy:

Hope TW is that tough to say that kind of statement to West.... oh I forgot we aren't that good enough as a gangster.


you seem very focused on the first part of my original response, which you agree with, and ignore completely the second part of that response. The failure of the US in protecting human rights does not justify China's abuse of human rights, nor does it make the concept of human rights false.

I don't agree with a lot of "security" laws passed since 2000, but I don't see how it justifies China's human right records, or how human rights issues is "propaganda used in the West" as you first called it.
Don't confuse me with your reasonableness.
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Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby kevinsang01212 » 01 Aug 2012, 01:27

hansioux wrote:I don't agree with a lot of "security" laws passed since 2000, but I don't see how it justifies China's human right records, or how human rights issues is "propaganda used in the West" as you first called it.

Ok it is a fact there is an issue there in China. Of course there is. It is every where.
doesn't mean it is not propaganda. It is used by the west to attack China and most people in US forget about themselves so they focus the problems abroad.
If you guys keep at bettering your selves then I would still love the American Ideal I used to love....but now not any more..... not after I found out it is another lie

It is a pyramid structure in China and it is the pyramid in US.
U can put whatever name on it and it is still a pyramid structure.
How much rights u get depends on where u are on that pyramid.

and I am not saying that the concept of human rights is false. Just saying they are all doing the same thing.
Gansta!!!! deceit, cohersion, violence, exploitation is the name of the game and rights?? ha!!!!

YOU have no rights when u r at the bottom of that pyramid. Doesn't matter if u are in US or China
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Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby kevinsang01212 » 01 Aug 2012, 03:56

BTW. I never said there is no human rights violation in China or the concept is false. You are saying that I am saying that because it is a strawmen fallacy. It is a defense mechanism.
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why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby headhonchoII » 01 Aug 2012, 08:09

The west guarantees freedom of expression, freedom of religion, multiple party voting voting, one adult one vote, freedom of media, generally independent judiciary, anti abuse laws that are enforced. They also do not lock people up in black jails, excepting the recent rendition programs run by the CIA. The west does not keep political foes under house arrest or make them disappear or create fake suicides to cover murders.

Enough with your false equivocations.
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Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby hansioux » 01 Aug 2012, 09:29

kevinsang01212 wrote:Ok it is a fact there is an issue there in China. Of course there is. It is every where.
doesn't mean it is not propaganda. It is used by the west to attack China and most people in US forget about themselves so they focus the problems abroad.


YOU have no rights when u r at the bottom of that pyramid. Doesn't matter if u are in US or China


You are still saying "i caught you running red lights, so what you said about me driving drunk is propaganda". Is that not in itself a fallacy?

Saying US is as bad as China in terms of human rights is one thing. But saying both sides are the same, so criticizing human rights in China is a propaganda, it just seems odd to me. So if the "west" criticizing China's human rights situation is propaganda, then in your mind who and which countries can criticize China on this issue?

I don't agree with the assessment that the US is as bad as China in terms of human rights because like headhonchoII said, even though there have been laws passed recently that I feel is against the principles of human rights, but some basic rights are still protected. The foundation of the US government is that these rights ought to be protected, so no one will just shrug their shoulders and say "what can you do, the government can do what ever they want". Having lived through part of the martial law and dictatorship in Taiwan, I just don't feel your equivocations comes close to the how things really are.

One major difference, if you are in the US, and you feel this way about the government, you can talk about it, even do something about it, either preach it to the public or run for office . Of course the unfortunate Citizen United ruling probably is making that even harder... but at least when you gather enough public opinions on your side, issues will be looked and voted on. None of these things can be done in China (or Taiwan 25 years ago) without being taken to the police office.
Don't confuse me with your reasonableness.
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Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby ChewDawg » 01 Aug 2012, 10:45

The Asian view of human rights, as pushed by academics such as Kishore Mahbubani in Singapore, is that human rights are a Western Judeo-Christian construction that places too much emphasis on individual versus collective thinking and this doesn't jive with Asian values that put a strong emphasis on communal values and economic development before individual liberties. As Lee Kuan Yew said "you can't eat human rights."

In Singapore's case, it has worked and they've created a place that preaches Asian values but is the most Western environment in Asia. Unfortunately, in most cases, "Asian values" often mean nepotism, favoritism for local firms in procurement, police that pick on opposition members, huge exploitation of the weaker members of society, and putting your opponents in jail for 30 years without a trial. The fight for human rights often means challenging such regimes, but too often liberals love to explain these differences with academic horseshit cultural relativism theories.
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Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby Jack Burton » 01 Aug 2012, 12:58

ChewDawg wrote:The Asian view of human rights, as pushed by academics such as Kishore Mahbubani in Singapore, is that human rights are a Western Judeo-Christian construction that places too much emphasis on individual versus collective thinking and this doesn't jive with Asian values that put a strong emphasis on communal values and economic development before individual liberties. As Lee Kuan Yew said "you can't eat human rights."

In Singapore's case, it has worked and they've created a place that preaches Asian values but is the most Western environment in Asia. Unfortunately, in most cases, "Asian values" often mean nepotism, favoritism for local firms in procurement, police that pick on opposition members, huge exploitation of the weaker members of society, and putting your opponents in jail for 30 years without a trial. The fight for human rights often means challenging such regimes, but too often liberals love to explain these differences with academic horseshit cultural relativism theories.



Lee KY is of the old guard, who believes he can be the benevolent monarch... well and good, but "benevolence" is a huge assumption, cannot be made systematic. more patronizing confucianism.
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why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby headhonchoII » 01 Aug 2012, 13:48

Wow I agree with Chewy. The benevolent monarch works only when the monarch is largely benevolent. The excuses as to why Asia should have a different system are just that, excuses.
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Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby Jack Burton » 01 Aug 2012, 14:05

headhonchoII wrote:Wow I agree with Chewy. The benevolent monarch works only when the monarch is largely benevolent. The excuses as to why Asia should have a different system are just that, excuses.


You only remind the denialists that it was Communism (however misguided) and republicanism, western ideas, that was able to (along with western military technology and other factors.... pretty much all foreign) that brought down centuries of imperial rule. It took Communism to really bring the large masses of Chinese a relative degree of education, freedom and prosperity (notwithstanding all the tragedies). Otherwise, under Chinese "wisdom", China would probably look like Giedi Prime and now as Communism (notably its idealism) is replaced by outright oligarchy, that may still happen.
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Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby urodacus » 02 Aug 2012, 08:21

face it, Kevin, you're unable to appreciate human rights because you believe the crap the CCP has fed you since birth. It does have some distinct advantages though: if I call you a wanker, I'm not infringing on your rights, then, am I?
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