Click here to go to our new forums at http://tw.forumosa.com
If you are a Forumosan Regular, when you log in for the FIRST TIME, you must RESET your password by using the Password Recovery system.

Usernames on the new forums must not contain any SPACES and must end with LETTER or a NUMBER; if yours does, you will be prompted to change your Username
Contact us at admin(at)forumosa(dot)com or @forumosa on Twitter or on our Facebook Page if you have any questions or problems logging back in

why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Forum rules
While the moderators are happy to help point people in the right direction for legal assistance and to attempt to keep these forums civil and tidy, please bear in mind that an Internet forum is not the place for providing or receiving legal advice or for the creation of any attorney-client privileges or obligations. Also keep in mind that Forumosa and the moderators cannot conduct comprehensive reviews of all laws or legal concepts referenced or discussed within these forums – laws and regulations are updated and amended, interpretations do change, and sometimes the legal landscape can change very fast. Forumosa provides these legal forums for general informational purposes only. By using these legal forums, you agree that the information does not constitute legal or other professional advice and no attorney-client or other relationship is created between you and any other posters on these forums. DO NOT CONSIDER THE FORUMS TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR OBTAINING LEGAL ADVICE FROM A QUALIFIED LICENSED ATTORNEY.

Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby kevinsang01212 » 02 Aug 2012, 22:24

hansioux wrote:
kevinsang01212 wrote:Ok it is a fact there is an issue there in China. Of course there is. It is every where.
doesn't mean it is not propaganda. It is used by the west to attack China and most people in US forget about themselves so they focus the problems abroad.


YOU have no rights when u r at the bottom of that pyramid. Doesn't matter if u are in US or China


You are still saying "i caught you running red lights, so what you said about me driving drunk is propaganda". Is that not in itself a fallacy?

Saying US is as bad as China in terms of human rights is one thing. But saying both sides are the same, so criticizing human rights in China is a propaganda, it just seems odd to me. So if the "west" criticizing China's human rights situation is propaganda, then in your mind who and which countries can criticize China on this issue?

I don't agree with the assessment that the US is as bad as China in terms of human rights because like headhonchoII said, even though there have been laws passed recently that I feel is against the principles of human rights, but some basic rights are still protected. The foundation of the US government is that these rights ought to be protected, so no one will just shrug their shoulders and say "what can you do, the government can do what ever they want". Having lived through part of the martial law and dictatorship in Taiwan, I just don't feel your equivocations comes close to the how things really are.

One major difference, if you are in the US, and you feel this way about the government, you can talk about it, even do something about it, either preach it to the public or run for office . Of course the unfortunate Citizen United ruling probably is making that even harder... but at least when you gather enough public opinions on your side, issues will be looked and voted on. None of these things can be done in China (or Taiwan 25 years ago) without being taken to the police office.


Well, whenever I saw an excess of human rights issues in China compared to the human rights issues in US where as The US is very prone on human rights violations. Something always don't seem right.

So here is my argument:
1. There is an excess of human right issues in main stream media about China/Asia in TW and the West compared to human rights issues about US BUT I could find equal amount of abusive occurrences about US. I could say the same thing on this forum I presume. So whats going on here???? It is trying to portray Governments in the West are better at Human rights than China / other Asian countries. By put more info out there about human rights abusive in China / Asian than human rights abuse in US, it is telling u that US is better at Human rights. Is it not a propaganda if US also abuse human right in a lot of areas?? And we don't talk about it that much? Isn't this a propaganda? it is a White men supremecy propaganda.

U put that pic as a human rights issue. OK
But I could find the same pics in US like that and do we talk about it that much? Does TW main stream media report that or something like that and label that as human rights issues as often???? and put up posters?????

hansioux wrote:"You are still saying "i caught you running red lights, so what you said about me driving drunk is propaganda". Is that not in itself a fallacy? "

I think your example is not as well suited as the other guy calling me a wanker.
Calling another person a wanker or some names is a process of demeaning another personal. Pretty low... only used in Kindergartens but it is for another time
What is the purpose of demeaning another person?? It is trying to make this person a lower status in a group/ social group
By calling me a wanker over and over. After a period of time. People would say Kevin is a wanker and we are not and we are all better than him and lets not listen what he has to say because he has a lower status by now. This is what 王道 is about. I don't know the name in English but is basically a game of how to higher your status and lower another's in a social group.
But in reality that guy (I couldnt bother to see the handle) is doing the same thing and everybody know it. Facts are there. Unless he couldnt get it up :ponder:


2. Comparing they are the same. They are the same in nature. They are the same in what they do.
Local establishments that try to maximise their positions.
Expanding their influences and gather resources so
They can SELF PERPETUATE.
Self Perpetuating Actions indeed. This this why they do in #1. Part of what they do.
what ever rights / well being we have right now.
It is only there when the local establishment can afford to do while maintaining its position as well as it can
Please listen to: http://www.criticalthinkeracademy.com/2 ... f-defense/ around 2:50
It is about self interest

And when a local estalishment wishes to violate your rights so they can self perpetuate, they will do it!!! u bet they will
Thats whats happening in US. Their rights are getting taken away everyday and there is nothing they can do about it.
When there are less and less for US to exploit, this situation will get more severe.
User avatar
kevinsang01212
I'll be at 99 Ranch Market (wǒ jiāng huì zài dà huá chāo shì)
 
Posts: 99
Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 23:46



Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby kevinsang01212 » 02 Aug 2012, 22:32

hansioux wrote:
I don't agree with the assessment that the US is as bad as China in terms of human rights because like headhonchoII said, even though there have been laws passed recently that I feel is against the principles of human rights, but some basic rights are still protected. The foundation of the US government is that these rights ought to be protected, so no one will just shrug their shoulders and say "what can you do, the government can do what ever they want". Having lived through part of the martial law and dictatorship in Taiwan, I just don't feel your equivocations comes close to the how things really are.


Exactly what I am saying in #2. martial law and dictatorship in Taiwan back then because the local establishment have to do at that time for it to self-perpetuate.
We have more freedom now compared to back then because they can afford to give us.

Please read that law... basic rights?

hansioux wrote:
One major difference, if you are in the US, and you feel this way about the government, you can talk about it, even do something about it, either preach it to the public or run for office . Of course the unfortunate Citizen United ruling probably is making that even harder... but at least when you gather enough public opinions on your side, issues will be looked and voted on. None of these things can be done in China (or Taiwan 25 years ago) without being taken to the police office.


Thats why they have that law I linked.
And thats what the Nazi did. take the rights aways little by little. day by day

What u know..... not many people talk about it because they don't talk about it in mainstream media
And who controls the main stream media??
User avatar
kevinsang01212
I'll be at 99 Ranch Market (wǒ jiāng huì zài dà huá chāo shì)
 
Posts: 99
Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 23:46



Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby kevinsang01212 » 02 Aug 2012, 22:43

urodacus wrote:face it, Kevin, you're unable to appreciate human rights because you believe the crap the CCP has fed you since birth. It does have some distinct advantages though: if I call you a wanker, I'm not infringing on your rights, then, am I?


I don't even know WTF CCP is
User avatar
kevinsang01212
I'll be at 99 Ranch Market (wǒ jiāng huì zài dà huá chāo shì)
 
Posts: 99
Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 23:46



Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby hansioux » 02 Aug 2012, 22:51

kevinsang01212 wrote:
Well, whenever I saw an excess of human rights issues in China compared to the human rights issues in US where as The US is very prone on human rights violations. Something always don't seem right.


All I see is "there's an equal amount of human rights abuse in the US as in China", and frankly, I can careless which country has more human rights abuse, if I hear one, I'd think it needs to be fixed, anywhere in the world.

If you have pictures of inhumane gymnastic training programs in the US, by all means post them, so people who weren't informed can do something about it. And that's what democracy is about.

And CCP is the Chinese Communist Party.
Don't confuse me with your reasonableness.
User avatar
hansioux
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
 
Posts: 6457
Joined: 28 Jul 2012, 14:41
In Taiwan since: 30 Jun 2006



Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby kevinsang01212 » 02 Aug 2012, 23:00

hansioux wrote:
kevinsang01212 wrote:
Well, whenever I saw an excess of human rights issues in China compared to the human rights issues in US where as The US is very prone on human rights violations. Something always don't seem right.


All I see is "there's an equal amount of human rights abuse in the US as in China", and frankly, I can careless which country has more human rights abuse, if I hear one, I'd think it needs to be fixed, anywhere in the world.

If you have pictures of inhumane gymnastic training programs in the US, by all means post them, so people who weren't informed can do something about it. And that's what democracy is about.

And CCP is the Chinese Communist Party.


I agree with u 100%
but is it an issue of human rights or something else?

On the news, there was this small black girl who get tasered by cop. Really??? WTF a girl??? WTF???WTF
under aged girl. U won't see it as that much of human right issue in mainstream media.

"If you have pictures of inhumane gymnastic training programs in the US" again it doesn't have to be exactly that to be human rights violation

If you don't know about they do in in the POW camp in outside of US then #1 of what I am saying is definitely working. and u haven't seen vids???
And there are countless of abuses videos and pics for inside and outside US.
If u are too lazy to find it yourself then I won't. Just go YOUTUBE
User avatar
kevinsang01212
I'll be at 99 Ranch Market (wǒ jiāng huì zài dà huá chāo shì)
 
Posts: 99
Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 23:46



Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby kevinsang01212 » 02 Aug 2012, 23:34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiS-k1IFWl0

And please understand the situation before you have some witty reply

there are just so many that shit on the Internet
User avatar
kevinsang01212
I'll be at 99 Ranch Market (wǒ jiāng huì zài dà huá chāo shì)
 
Posts: 99
Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 23:46



Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby hansioux » 03 Aug 2012, 00:13

kevinsang01212 wrote:
On the news, there was this small black girl who get tasered by cop. Really??? WTF a girl??? WTF???WTF
under aged girl. U won't see it as that much of human right issue in mainstream media.

"If you have pictures of inhumane gymnastic training programs in the US" again it doesn't have to be exactly that to be human rights violation

If you don't know about they do in in the POW camp in outside of US then #1 of what I am saying is definitely working. and u haven't seen vids???
And there are countless of abuses videos and pics for inside and outside US.
If u are too lazy to find it yourself then I won't. Just go YOUTUBE


No one is saying that China is the only place that has human rights issues, but you know what is different between the US and China? You get to see that black girl getting tasered news in the US. Same goes for the inappropriate force taken on the shopper video. I hope police exerting excessive force on shopper is not the same thing as institutional abuse of human rights to you. I find it hard to believe that the US government agrees with these cops' action, ordered them to do so, or trained these cops to do just that. I think it says more about the poor funding and training of policemen, and those who used excessive force will have to goto court to face consequences. But you won't see news like this about China in China, not even on the internet. Do you see the difference?

The US isn't perfect, and frankly I don't believe any society will ever be perfect, because it's made of imperfect people like us. But with democracy and free speech, people like us see these news and forms public opinion that will makes sure things like that won't go under the table, there will be a trial and even if the police got off because of some technicality, there will be people working to see that things like this won't happen again.

The photos of those girls athletes won't show up on Chinese news, and officials who respond to to questions will say the country paid to get the medals, and if that's what it takes to get them then that's the correct thing to do. That is an institution that offers no avenue for reflection, self-examination, and therefore human right abuses are ignored and average citizens don't even dare to mention it, like how my elders beat their children so they won't speak of 228 massacre, because they are afraid the kids will go blabber about it in public.

I mean if you don't agree with that, then I think we've all said our views and there's no need to continue. I don't think human rights is a competition between countries, but I see the condition much worse in China, because there is no way of changing it by Chinese citizens, since they live in an authoritarian, totalitarian regime. And you are saying people in the US are sheep and can't see the human right abuses right in front of them because of mainstream media, well at least you are not, and you get to talk about how people like me are blind to the truth. Does that about sums it up?
Don't confuse me with your reasonableness.
User avatar
hansioux
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
 
Posts: 6457
Joined: 28 Jul 2012, 14:41
In Taiwan since: 30 Jun 2006



why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby headhonchoII » 03 Aug 2012, 00:25

Well done for laying it out to Kevin. Not much more to be said really, if he doesn't get it at this stage he should go to China and support free speech, religion, rule of law and multiple party voting, he can learn the hard way.

Kevins views are very common among Chinese and taiwanese who had an idealistic viewpoint on the US and then saw how messy and flawed real democracies are in reality when they study or work there. Then they question everything and make false equivocations with other countries.

But the thing is, democracies are the best we have to work with because they are all based off the flawed unit of the human individual.
Claim to fame: smoothly cruising towards no.11 no.10 on all time greatest poster list.
headhonchoII
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 14698
Joined: 26 Aug 2002, 10:40
Location: Taipei



Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby urodacus » 03 Aug 2012, 13:43

kevinsang01212 wrote:there are just so many that shit on the Internet



I stopped doing that long ago, I'm sick and tired of cleaning my keyboard and screen.
The prizes are a bottle of f*!@#$% SCOTCH and a box of cheap f!@#$#$ CIGARS!

Too many people! Almost all of the world's problems are due to overpopulation. The rest are due to religion.

50% of the world's wild animals have disappeared in the last 50 years. Did you eat them, or eat their house?
User avatar
urodacus
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 12087
Joined: 04 Nov 2004, 23:20
Location: picking flowers



Re: why don`t Chinese citizens have human-rights ?

Postby hansioux » 03 Aug 2012, 17:26

A system capable of change and without absolutes except for basic rights as the only kind of society that will keep improving itself.
Don't confuse me with your reasonableness.
User avatar
hansioux
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
 
Posts: 6457
Joined: 28 Jul 2012, 14:41
In Taiwan since: 30 Jun 2006



FRIENDLY REMINDER
   Please remember that Forumosa is not responsible for the content that appears on the other side of links that Forumosans post on our forums. As a discussion website, we encourage open and frank debate. We have learned that the most effective way to address questionable claims or accusations on Forumosa is by engaging in a sincere and constructive conversation. To make this website work, we must all feel safe in expressing our opinions, this also means backing up any claims with hard facts, including links to other websites.
   Please also remember that one should not believe everything one reads on the Internet, particularly from websites whose content cannot be easily verified or substantiated. Use your common sense and do not hesitate to ask for proof.
PreviousNext




Return to Human Rights



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 0 guests

cron